"I agree that the story is the thing...but it seems like no matter how I craft a story the reaction from the "story craving PCs" is invariably, "I punch this guy in the face while he's monologuing!!""
I'm sure we've all been there. You want to tell an epic story, the kind your players will pump their fists and cheer when it's all done, but they don't seem to care. Their eyes glaze over when the sage talks about the ancient history of his people, they can't remember the name of the guy they're supposed to get the thing from, and when the villain is giving his speech during the big climax, one of them says 'I punch him in the face while he's talking!'
What's wrong with these players? Even in the given example, they say they want story but they aren't reacting well. The problem is that they don't want your story, they want their story. Your job as GM is not to tell a story, but to set up an environment where they can create a story.
So why punch him in the head? Well, the player might be a jerk but I'll assume that you're playing with friends and your friends aren't jerks. I would suspect the cause would be that the player feels he is going to have to fight the Big Bad Evil Guy. Therefore, what the guy says is unimportant, and he might even take him unawares. The guy is Evil with a capital E, so he's going to need killing one way or another. This common setup in RPGs presumes an outcome from a scene, which is where the problem starts.
The way I run games, I don't like to have too many assumptions about what is going to happen. I provide the PCs with a situation, and leave it to them to resolve. There are certainly adversaries, but rarely are they Capital E Evil. They have an agenda that conflicts with the PCs or that the PCs finds objectionable. They might face them down in mortal combat. They might trick or manipulate him into giving up his agenda, or promise him something in exchange. Or do any number of things.
The trick to running a game like this is to be willing to trust yourself. You have to let go of writing pages of notes and plans and contingency plans. If you find yourself writing 'if the PCs do this, that, but if they do that, this other thing' stop. You are second guessing your players. Just set up the situation, the characters involved, and play it out by the seat of your pants. They will likely come up with something you would never have thought of anyway, so don't worry about it.
I will note that this is easier in some systems than in others. For this to work, you need to have a system that is easy to run on the fly. If your system of choice doesn't have good mook rules, make some up. You'll need them. And if you're playing something complicated, know it well enough to fake your way through a stat block. I did this many times in 3e D&D. I knew the system well enough to eyeball a BAB, damage bonus, and hit points. Anything else I'd make up on the spot. Feats, ability scores, spells, you name it. Your players will never notice, I promise.
There's a lot more to this, naturally. One of the reasons I started this blog was to analyze what it is I do in gaming and try to explain it all. Hope some of you are interested to read it. :)
my first action from now on when anyone talks is to punch him (or her ... dont wanna be sexist after all) in the face
ReplyDeleteYou do know they'll punch back, right Roger. :P
ReplyDeleteI completely understand and empathize with you on this one. I used to run campaigns for a few games (D&D mainly) where I would have detailed scenarios, plot lines, and outcomes. I'd give the players some detailed info on the background of the lair, the treasure at hand, or the bad guy and I thought it was great. The problem is that no matter how much I put into it, the players would inevitably go off and do something completely off the track. At worst, they would pull an "Andrew" and stay home, go clubbing (or shopping), or some other such nonsense that had nothing to do with anything I had planned. I learned really quickly to come up with a skeleton plot line that could easily be adapted to anything. If the party wanted to go out to the pubs, the bad guy would also go out to the pub. If the party wanted to stay home, I'd have chainsaw wielding maniacs bust through their front door and totally freak them out (ask Mark, he was there for that one). The trick is, as I have discovered, to have story come to them. At the very least, get good at ad libbing, which actually works quite well for me and is generally the way I run a game.
ReplyDeleteOne of my best games recently in the World of Darkness game they were about two hours into playing, and we took a smoke break. I confessed that they hadn't even touched what I'd prepared, because they went in a direction I didn't anticipate. And I loved it, it was a heck of a lot of fun!
ReplyDeleteThe problem is the story they want to tell anymore involves punching the barkeep in the face, raping his wife and daughter, and stealing all his gold. There are no heroics anymore, only bullies that are as bad as the antagonists.
ReplyDeleteMy only advice there is that if the PCs want to behave like villains, treat them like villains. That's apparently what they want to play, so let them travel down the merry path to oblivion.
ReplyDeleteThat might not be the kind of game they want to play though. That needs to be ironed out at the get-go.
And if the GM says "I'm running a game of heros facing down long odds" and you as a player agree to play this game then behave like a villain, you are being a bad player. Stop it. If you don't want to be a hero, pass on the game. Games are more than the system.
Also, it depends on their definition of hero. You may be thinking Aragorn and Legolas, while they're thinking of Jack Bauer.
ReplyDeleteI think another problem here is that you run into the problem of either having very few of no plot twists, or surprises, as well as almost no mysteries...because the group of players is not willing to ever talk to anyone.
ReplyDelete"Let them be villains" says Marie Antoinette the GM but the problem is that they will eventually cut off your head and run the game into the ground.
It's like everything else, if you give them no boundaries, and they can run rampant they will get bored long before any heroes can come put them in their place.
In that sort of a game the only way to have any type of mystery is to have one that they solve regardless of their actions. But at that point are you really in a game at all, or is it just story time?
It makes no sense to have villains who are interesting characters, and a story that means anything if the PCs are simply there to crush, kill, and destroy. I'm all for a hack and slash game now and then, but I agree with Mark, it seems like it's rare to have PCs who actually want to be heroes and save the day anymore.
Combat, loot, combat, loot...is that all that matters in a fantasy game anymore?
Honestly, if I had players that just wanted to kill and loot I wouldn't run for them. They aren't interested in the kinds of games I'm interested in running. I don't owe anyone a game, and they don't owe it to me to play it.
ReplyDeleteYomamma, the players you describe want to be villains. You're still using terms that imply you want to control them. You don't need an NPC to put them into their place. You need to let them take their actions to their natural conclusion. Maybe after a few games of rampaging and pillaging, no one will talk to them. The priest at the temple won't heal their wounds. The guards know that they can slaughter them, so they run at the very sight of the approaching party. The local lord throws them the keys to the castle, begging for mercy.
What now? They're despotic lords of a city-state. Their people hate them, and there are constant assassination attempts on their life. The neighboring kingdoms are hostile as well, and food begins running short as the peasants refuse to work the fields.
They want to be villains? See how far they'll go. Will they use slavery? Ally with orc tribes? Sell their souls to demon? See how far they want to go.
None of this is meant as advice to punish them, or get them to play the kind of game you want. Its to run the kind of game they want. Give them that power, set up situations and conflicts and see where they take it.
Of course, if you don't want to run the game your players want to play, don't do it.